Thursday, January 12, 2006

Readers respond to Mr. Schick - Where Chabad is Heading IV

161. Chabad in right direction
Joseph Seigel - Usa
01/11/2006 00:42

Chabad does not want Jews to break Halakah....nor is it watering Halakah down; Chabad is asking us to do exactly what the Baal Shem Tov did what you can do! Do what is possible first! Chabad is not turning Jews away because in many cities like Memphis or Kansas city most Jews live miles from each other and are not within walking diatance of a shul or Synagogue. The author must not have worked with unaffiliated Jews in the Midwest to write such a disturbing article.....isnt some observance and learning and worship of God better than turning these children of G-d to unspiritual and nonlaw following reform or messianic Judaism? Some of us in the midwest have in our cities only the choices of Chabad or Reform and conservative .......and there are literally 10s of thousands of us walking the thin line in these please dont lecture Chabad for helping us while you in New York or Chicago or Jerusalem do nothing for the unaffiliated at all.

162. Chabad is haymish - Love every Jew
A Jew - USA
01/11/2006 00:46

I love Chabad for being 100% devoted to bringing Torah and Mitzvot to every Jewish soul. The love for their fellow Jew and Torah and Mitzvot make them very charismatic, and that draw many people to get close to them. What so beautiful about them is that they are not judgmental. Shabbat is truly a joyful experience with them. Singing and dancing are a part of a typical Shabbat service. How many people in a typical orthodox shul are truly learned people, that understand every aspect of the rituals and mitzvot. The author is overly exaggerating the level of observance through real knowledge, among Orthodox Jews.

163. Please, consider this...
01/11/2006 01:22

Defining Judaism downward? Are we talking about the same Chabad I am familiar with? You know the ones who don t shave even though there are many heteirim? And the Chabad that, even in the farthest corner of the world, won t use the heteirim to eat pass palter or chalav stam? Oh, and the same Chabad who will wear a long black coat in the heat " not to mention their tallit kattan, which much of the orthodox and yeshivish world will skip due to discomfort? And are we talking about the same Chabad? There are so many more examples. The point is that they haven t lessened their own levels of observance. It is abundantly obvious that they are not defining Judaism downward at all! They are simply willing to see the good in a fellow Jew even if there is a lot of negative in him or her that is easier to focus on.

164. where is the love that Lubavitch claims?
01/11/2006 01:44

All of these crude attacks on Dr. Schick make me wonder. Where is the love that Lubavitch claims they have for every Jew ? Or is that just if you go along with their agenda? For shame.

165. Lubavitch thrives on ignorance
01/11/2006 01:48

The fact is that the more educated a Jew is Jewishly, the less likely they are to belong to the Lubavitcher sect. Lubavitch outreach thrives on ignorant Jews, who know little about Judaism and can be duped to believe that Lubavitch is mainstream.

166. Brilliant Article !
Dov S.
01/11/2006 03:17

Chabad require little of participants ..How foolish! Chabad is expected to require .. Who are the peopl Chabad is engaged with .. Preschoolers that you can make a dress code for or people who are adults endowed by the Almighty with Bchira Chofshies making thier own life decisions and Chabad seeks to guide them warmly towards Yiddishkiet - Chabad to highlight a person who has written nastily about Orthodox.. Chabad doesnt highlight - they engage as the great lovers of Israel throughout our history- Tachas Ahavah Yistinnuenei Just a note Jewish Outreach - Who is # 2 in Out reach ? Aish Institutions 25 Worldwide Chabad Center 3,700 Worldwide

167. Whats the real agenda
01/11/2006 03:33

I suspect the author has a hidden agenda. Reading the authors article, I found no valid criticism of Lubavitch. The article says more about the author then about lubavitch.

168. Destruction of the Temple
01/11/2006 04:00

What an innane article! I am a non-lubavitcher who atends a Chabad Synagogue in Canada. I learn with Yeshivish and Chabad Rabbi's. I can personally debunk Mr. Schick's entire diatribe. As you were presumptuously attempting to get the Chabad movement to "introspect" you actually missed that opportunity entirely, stepped way over the line in showing your self-righteous and self-serving bias and seem to have forgottem the lesson of Tisha B'Av in the extreme. NEXT TIME THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU SPEAK AND LEAVE HASHEM MIZBARAICH TO JUDGE WHAT IS HIS! Remind me never to attend or send any of my kids to The Rabbi Jacob Joseph Yeshivah if that's the Jewish Way that's being fostered and shown by example among it's halls.

169. beware of Lubavitcher propaganda
01/11/2006 04:59

Lubavitch exaggerates their numbers. Many of the Chabad houses they claim are just the houses of Lubavitch followers, not real outreach centers. They have a big propaganda operation along with their other activities.

170. Think positive
a. litvish - canada
01/11/2006 05:04

Talking about torah standards how about motzi shem ra the proabtion aganst shaming someone or a grop (see chfatz chaym) in public. what has always been a wonder to me is how these Chabad rabbis go out to the craziest places and they still keep their beards hats and long coats if they were there for anything else but to uphold the standard of yidishkeit they would have thrown it all away long ago

71. phsychology
01/11/2006 05:51

Forget who's side your on just for a moment, and look it what you are writing. Many of the comments posted are just letting out steam with nothing really to say. when two poeple argue there is an intelligent loser who admits his mistake etc. and then there is the sore loser who really gets fired up goes to an extreme saying nasty,unlogical comments and calls the other a loser an idiot or a no brainer etc. If someone out there really wanted to help there would be constructive criticism and then maybe some praise and appreciation too. It's like a marriage we all have our pros and cons. We just need to work out our differences.

172. Truth hurts.
David - USA
01/11/2006 06:14

In life you see what you want to see.Close to 14 years ago a City called Daytona Beach known for its bikers, spring break, car racing etc. got a Chabad presence and started from ground zero like most Chabad Centers in these small towns. Today we have about two dozen shabbat observant families with close to 100 people who come weekly to Synagogue walking (which BTW most of my friends incl. myself sold their houses which were to far and bought new ones near the Center for the sole purpose of walking to Synagogue. How about most of the woman of the community who are connected to Chabad use a brand new woman s mikveh thanks to Chabad bringing to our attention what a mikvah is to begin with and now it's the trend here.What about a small town that has its own Glatt Kosher meat & dairy restaurant s. G-d bless them thanks to the unique approach of Chabad hundreds of thousands of Jews are more Jewish and yes they deserve all the financial support what could give because they do it with love..

173. marvin your the best! thank you
shliach chabad
01/11/2006 06:25

motivated by your article we at chabad just received a Significant pledge to build our new mikvah if just for that dayenu! you article actually did do good things, as we read in the torah last week as Joseph told his brothers your intentions were irrelevant the main thing is the end result which i need to credit you, thank you, thank you keep up the good work! p.s. FYI, yes as of this year there is chabad in Bentonville Arkansas (walmarts Hq)

174. Chabad saves lives
An admirer of Chabad
01/11/2006 06:32

Mr. Schick, when your grandchildren bring a gentile home and announce their plans to marry, Lubavitch will be there for you to help in any way that they possibly can. They will welcome you warmly as family, in a non-judgmental manner as only Chabad can, no matter what your prior interaction has been with them (namely this article). Mr. Schick I look forward to reading your finale article based on your experience and facts once you re privileged to meet Lubavitch.

175. cant stand chabads success
rachel - australia
01/11/2006 08:33

i am not chabad , i come from a modern orthodox home .The fact remains that for the last 25 years all ihave heard from orthodox rabbis is criticism of chabad and ithink the reason is because they have been completely outdone by chabads enthusiasem and work ethic they have to find baseless reasons to excuse themselves

176. chabad vs misnagid
jack - usa
01/11/2006 09:06

a misnagid has a one dimensinal approach to judaism like schick who says judaism is about obediance and limitation people like him are the reason why 90% of the jewish people are not observent mr schik please study the works of the bal shemtov and you will learn what judaism is really about

177. Chabad Moshiach
01/11/2006 09:20

chabad has encountered criticism and heavy opposition at every step of the way, since it ever began, from Chassidism to Kiruv. this isn't anything new. not only were we successful anyway, but as schick notes we are now being copy 'd by organizations and groups who opposed us (they cant keep up). they joined the wagon. as for all the current opposition about moshiach on chabad, all i can say is i see the same happening, the world is so heated up about moshiach like never before, and sooner or later they'll know we're wright, the Rebbe never made a mistake, not about Kiruv and not about Moshiach. the train keeps moving full steam ahead. when they want to join is Purely up to them

178. Shkoyach
Mendel - UK
01/11/2006 13:10

The best way to sell a book is to get it banned. Many thanks Mr Schick for giving people the chance to express their gratitude and support to Chabad through the comments on this article.

179. Marvin Schick
Elliot Brill - England
01/11/2006 14:33

Marvin Schick attacks Lubavitch for "Acceptance of severe anti-Halachic behaviour". Is Mr Schick so meticulous in his own Halachic behaviour?

180. the rabbi is correct
01/11/2006 16:07

The Rabbi Is Correct. We seen how the reform movment has lied to jews all these years that torah and mitzvot are not important. Same with Chabad, It gives the non-religious jews the wrong idea that they dont have to observe anything and still be considered good jews. The Shulchan Aruch Was not wrong on how it says to treet such jews. As An Orthodox jew I was ridaculed By Chabad for admonishing people about there behaivior The TORAH says to do so it does not say to baby these people and let them sin even more.

181. no more donations to RJJ
01/11/2006 19:34

Marvin, I have decided that if RJJ can install you as President, then my regular annual donation to RJJ is hereby suspended permanently.

182. Where are Jews heading?
Shlomo - US
01/11/2006 19:59

What is interesting is that the Chabad and the Conservative movement have much in common. Their Rabbi's keep halacha (of course to a much lesser degree for the conservative rabbis) while the majority of their congregation don't. How ironic that the leadership of the Reform movement and their congregants are more in sync with one another. They don't bother to keep any halacha. So what is Judaism in the 21st century? Is Judaism nothing more than nice platitudes e.g. pick and choose halacha? What then separates us from our Christian neighbors who do much of the same? Are the watered down Jews just giving money to their organizations to help resolve some guilt? If the parents are not living examples of what it is to be a Jew, than most of the kids wil be lost. Going to shul only on the high holidays and lighting a few candles won't cut it. While I admire the Chabad for what they are doing, I'm afraid they, like the conservatives, are failing the Jews. May Hashem help us all!!!

183. the rabbi is correct
Marty - USA
01/11/2006 21:58

Shmuel, Perhaps you should study the laws of rebuke. firstly, it has to be done in a way of love - not hate. . secondly, if the person will not change as a result, it's better that he transgress inadvertantly then wilfully. the halachik (chabad) approch is to reach out with love and teach the beuty of yiddishkeit, through which the person will realize the need to change their lives. the hundreds of thousands of bal teshuvas who became frum through lubavitch, did so because of this approach, not the approach of condemnation. living in a place with no frum infrastructure and bringing up a frum family is more a positive statement then telling others that their way is wrong. remember in the torah, the in the same section as rebuking one's fellow is the command: "Love your fellow as yourself" - this is a precondition to rebuke. So shmuel, let's lead together by example.

184. Truthfully, Chabad thinks about the same things
Eliezer - USA
01/11/2006 21:59

As I get ready to drive my children an hour and a half to the nearest Jewish day school, I ponder the comments of Dr. Schick. It may surprise you, but while the tone of the conversation is different, many of these ideas are discussed amongst the shluchim themselves. I myself wonder about the effects of living outside of a frum community for 14 years. Have I become more tolerant of a non-halachic lifestyle? Probably. In my first year, right out of Kollel, I was so concerned that people might not have Shmura Matza for Pesach, that I bought a case with my own money and made sure that college students had Shmura Matza for their spring break trips to Cancun and Daytona. After 14 years on Shlichus, I no longer have money to use in this fashion, but, I most likely would spend it in a different fashion. At times I miss the that concern and need that I personally need to save the world. But, at the end of the day I think tolerance is a good thing.

185. Walmart?
Eliezer - USA
01/11/2006 22:22

If Chabad is like Walmart the similarity may be in the compensation package. All Chabad Houses are self funded, so while there are a few exceptions, most guys make peanuts. There is no Chabad health plan or pension. Just think, there are, as Dr. Schick says over 300 couples lined up to do this work. These couples are ready to go out and work under their own funding initially, working tirelessly for the Jewish people because they believe in a cause. They believe that a Jew in Bentonville Arkansas has just as much right to live a connected Jewish life as those in Brooklyn. They believe that with love and compassion ever Jewish person wants to be connected with Judaism. A standing topic of conversation at conventions is how much personal debt one has because of Chabad activities. If Chabad activities are cheaper than those of other organizations, it is not because of some calculated design to undercut the competition. Rather, it is because of the self sacrifice of the rabbi

186. Way off base
Jonah - USA
01/12/2006 01:19

Marvin Shick makes it sound as if Chabad is taking unfair advantage of the Jewish community-at-large by undercutting the competition to dominate the market as Wal-Mart. Who is this competition that you are talking about? Who else has been out in the boonies and every far flung corner of the world bringing Jewish values and traditions to the thirsty souls? To me it sounds like sour grapes, Mr Shick. To attack Chabad in this pseudo-intellectual fashion is damaging to the thousands of shluchim and to the countless number people who have become closer to Judaism because of Chabad. I am sure though that despite your negative and disheartening article that you and your family will be welcome at any Chabad house you happen to need for kosher food, a place to stay, a minyan, a hospital visitation for a sick friend or acquaintance, a friend or family member who needs intermarriage counseling, or for any of the other services performed by Chabad Rabbis day in and day out all over the wor

187. Religous Freedom
vincent campellone - USA
01/12/2006 06:29

The Jewish Institution for many years of my life has guided me on moral and spiritual issues. Chabad, as one may experience, serves humanity. A very great calling of selflessness! We have all, suffered from tyants of war. Have lost many loved ones. Have experienced, the after affects on society. But yet, Chabad strives to overcome the difficult. Leading the down trodden, to regain a normal, and productive way of life. The Rabbi's, are doing the good work, and have my deepest respect. Since my young years, at Gratz College in Philadelphia. Where, many young and older men and women, had come from many places thru out the world. Have shared their experiences, and not to be taken lightly. Shalom. vince.

188. infantile reaction to the article is telling
01/12/2006 11:27

The infantile reaction to the article reflected in many of the comments here - it seems that various Lubavitch shluchim may have told their parishioners to log in and give Marvin a high-tech lynching - doesn't reflect well on the lynchers (besides the fact that many can't seem to spell correctly or are posting phony things and threats to stop donating to a certain institution). Such reactions strengthen the case that this movement is out of hand. It's high time people stopped giving them a free ride and recognized them for what they really are.

189. Marvin - accept the Rebbe as your leader !
Ben - NY
01/12/2006 11:36

Marvin - the door is still open to repent. Dump your Rabbis and accept the Rebbe as your saviour !

190. Chabad's Meshiach
Murray Wolfe - USA
01/12/2006 18:18

Other than the fact that many "way off base" Lubavicher believe the Rebbe is Moshiach, Chabad has been doing absoultely wonderful things to bring Judaism back to those who left it.

191. Motty
Chaim - USA
01/12/2006 18:24

In response to Motty's allegation of "infantile" comments, I happen to think quite the opposite. There are quite a few very good points brought up. And "infantile" can only go to describe someone who assumes that everyone voicing a positive comment must be Chabad's lackeys, or assuming that just because someone doesn't spell correctly, their opinions don't matter. As the man said, grow up.

192. rules are different for different people
steve - USA
01/12/2006 20:25

"Chabad is today world Jewry's largest organization, probably by a wide margin. In its ranks are people of intellectual weight, yet it is hard to find an internal discussion of the implications of the direction being taken, or the implications of the changed and highly-assimilated American Jewish landscape. There is no discussion of whether there are limits to permitting Chabad synagogue regulars to drive to shul on Shabbat,...." Regarding the above statement - what kind of discussion is needed. There are limits for one person that are not accepted by others. As an example, driving to Shul on Shabbat may not violate any halacha at all since the original prohibitions about work on the Sabbath cannot apply to motor vehicles even tho some believe they do. If you don't believe the Oral Law is correct then what?

193. Where is Chabad heading
01/12/2006 20:58

nobody in Chabad ever asked me for a dime ! they asked me to PARTICIPATE, to share, to be a part of the community, to learn, They didnt critiscize my tattoos, didnt tell me what i had to do, what i had to wear or that i didnt make enough money to come into their shul, I was welcomed because I'm jewish, and that should always be enough, diamonds are rough when they come from the ground, coevred in dirt but with a little cleaning and some polish they become gems.

194. Marvin-go to the Ohel
Mo - not a Lubavitcher
01/12/2006 21:12

Marvin - you can still repent. Go visit the Rebbe's tomb, accept him as your saviour, and invite Lubavitch to take over RJJ. You don't want to be left behind after the Rebbe's resurrection, do you ?

195. Where are we heading as Jews?
Yoav - Canada
01/12/2006 23:29

Several comments bagged into one. The rabbi brings up excellent points about Chabad. I think every sect of Judiasim today has some halaca rulings that seem weird. but unfortunatly as noted in the book of Shoftim, there is no king/judge over us, and they people do what is good in their eyes. the observant community really needs a good rebuking...all of us. So the question I have for the rabbi, if you have someone who wants to get married "jewish" but they will drive on shabbos to the pre-wedding shabbat reading of the torah and aliayh for the chtan, what do you do? You don't allow them to fill the mitzva of marrigae becuase of a different mitzvah the broke? So the last point I want to make is, you've done alot of good point making, but now what? give some examples of what and how they the lubavitch community should go about trying to fix these things. I can point out many mistakes by all observant jews, but the problem is I'm not sure what to tell them when it comes to fixing it..

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