These guys also tend to have translations, but I don’t see one for this article in Shturem. Like the last interview, it’s eye-opening not only for what it reveals about Amar’s relationship with Chabad, but what it shows about Amar’s view of the rest of the world’s Orthodox rabbis and his relationship with them.
If you’re interested in this conversions issue, this is a must-read. Note in particular two quotes from Amar, the second in the article where he asserts he’s engaging in “ordination” (yusm’chu) of Diaspora rabbis with his testing (!), and his applying carte blanche to the entirety of the territory under Rabbi Berel Lazar’s control.
“The Rabbinate Recognizes Conversions from the FSU”
The Chief Rabbi of Israel, the Rishon L’Tziyon and President of Heads of Batei Din Rabbi Shlomo Amar shlit'’a, clarified last night to Rav Pinchas Altheus, representative of FSU [Chabad] rabbis to Israel, “Everything I’m saying regarding conversions by Diaspora rabbis, I’m not saying about the beit din of Russia, which is under the jurisdiction of Rabbi Berel Lazar.” Rabbi Altheus met last night with the Chief Rabbi and heard from him words of praise about the work of FSU [Chabad] rabbis.The Chief Rabbinate of Israel this week established that conversions and gittin executed by most Orthodox Diapora rabbis won’t be recognized as kosher. “We don’t recognize these conversions and gittin until these rabbis are ordained by us,” he said in an announcement distributed by the Rabbinate.
Jews converted by an Orthodox process in the Diaspora will have to undergo another conversion in Israel for stringency’s sake, in order to be recognized by Rabbinate batei din as Jews. Also, women who received a get in the Diaspora and want to get married in Israel will need to return and request a get, if her get was issued by rabbis not recognized by the Chief Rabbinate.
Last night, the representative of FSU [Chabad] rabbis to Israel, Rabbi Pinchas Altheus, met with Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rishon L’Tziyon and President of the Heads of Batei Din in Israel, the Gaon Rabbi Shlomo Amar, shlit'’a.
During the meeting, Rabbi Altheus discussed the issue of conversions with Rabbi Amar, and about this that the Chief Rabbinate of Israel announced that it will require an additional conversion for stringency’s sake from all who complete conversions done by Diaspora rabbis.
Rabbi Amar clarified to him that this condition is not being applied to the special beit din headed by Chief Rabbi of Russia, the Gaon Rabbi Berel Lazar shlit'’a, and since conversions are like all other beit din activitives done by this beit din, they will continue to be recognized as before and respected by the Chief Rabbinate.
The Russian beit din established and led by Rabbi Lazar, founded with a permanent connection to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel, that will from time to time bring in a representative of the Rishon L’Tziyon, the Gaon Rabbi Tziyon Boron (sp?) shlit'’a, head of the beit din of P”T [Petach Tikva, perhaps?] and member of the Beit Din HaGadol, participated up-close in the holy work.
The Rishon L’Tziyon Rabbi Amar further praised in front of Rabbi Altheus the work of the beit din under Rabbi Lazar’s leadership, and said that the Chief Rabbinate appreciates the beit din’s especial stringence in matters of halacha to the farthest end.
Rabbi Altheus related to Shturem that conversions in the FSU are among the most stringent in the world. “The judges don’t adjudicate an approved conversion unless they are one hundred percent sure, after investigation and detailed examination, to where the judge can see with his own eyes that the converts accept Torah and mitzvos,” Rabbi Altheus said, “as is required according to halacha.”
May 28th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Its interesting, the Chief Rabbanite is only picking a fight with those groups that it considers powerless and unorganized. They cannot pick a fight with Chabad, because then Chabad will wage a war with them, to deligitemize the Chief Rabbinate. Chabad will then set up its own Bais Din System in Israel which would compete with the Establishment. What this also does, that nobosy realizes is make Chabad worldwide, the defacto bet din for geirut.
If someone wants to become a convert, they will know that Chabad is the way to go. Is Chabad more willing to take someone on as a convert than other batei dinim, I don’t know you be the judge…..
The RCA, will not stand up to the Chief Rabbinate, and frankly the other more Chareidi sects in the usa, chassidish, or yeshivish, don’t really care, because they are not really in the business of converting people anyway, and don’t really care for them. If you have to go to Israel to do it, they couldn’t care less.
Its now conversions, but then will be gittin, and later other things as well.
As Richard Dreyfus famously told Bill Murray in “What About Bob”, …..”Baby steps, Baby steps, Baby steps….”
May 28th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
CS, not to sound ignorant or to side track from more important issues, but I want to ask: are you using Chabad as an example?
I have the understanding that Chabad will not actually perform conversions — they will take the convert after the fact, but not do the conversion so as to not be responsible if it goes “bad.”
Although this makes no sense to me, given that the candidate spends severel years in the Lub. community, so I would still think the community is responsible, more than some one-day beit din experience.
Anyway, this is what I was told by several Chabad converts, and one or two Lubavitchers, as well. Is that just a US thing, or was I given false information?
May 28th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
Last year Amar toured the FSU and was scheduled to make an appearance at a non-Chabad yeshiva. The students, faculty and guests waited 5 hours for him, but he did not show. His companions Lev Leviav and Berel Lazar did not want to go the non-Chabad yeshiva, and Amar complied with their requests, even as his staff was telling the non-Chabad Jews to wait, Amar was coming.
Amar did not even apologize for this. The non-Chabad organization of European rabbis tried to raise this issue, but were largely ignored by journalists – and by the RCA. What goes around, it seems, comes around.
May 28th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Chabad Rabbi in the US will not be recognized, only Lazar’s in the FSU..
May 29th, 2006 at 3:12 am
you misread the interview, the point Rav Amar made was that HE was the one who set up the bais Din in the FSU under Rav Lazar so it is his baby . Lazar has always had close contacts with the Rabbanut here they provide him with funds and many materials, he is their boy and so are the rabbonim under him!
rav Amar still accepts the geirim of Rav Gedalia Schwartz Shlit’a Av Beis Din of the CRC if they are done by him personally not by others under him withoutout his direct personal participation. Such a situation existed in Boston when there was a Bais Din uof Rav Mordechai Savitzky Z”L, Rav Yoshe Ber Solovietchik Z”L and yibadel the Bostoner Rebbe Shlit”a , when the first 2 were niftar the rabbanut no longer accepted documents signed by Rabbi Fox who was the administrator. In a way Rav Amar is right as in the USA there is no control and no standards and unfortunately there are members of the RCA who have congregations without a mechitza etc. or who have been involved in sex and fraud scandals unbecoming of rabbonim.
May 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I can’t believe that Yitz could say, “Rav Amar is right as in the USA there is no control and no standards and unfortunately there are members of the RCA who have congregations without a mechitza etc. or who have been involved in sex and fraud scandals unbecoming of rabbonim.”
I guess the recent indictments of BOTH chief rabbis in Israel would inspire my confidence in Israeli Rabbis??? PLEEEZE.
Amar isn’t stupid. Amar needs to accept Russia or all the Russians in Israel will bolt and Amar would lose the political majority needed to keep his post. Remember, he has a POLITICAL, not religious, position to uphold, and the Russians hold the majority in Israel right now. The Russians are powerful and Chabad is leading them around by the nose. Hence Amar’s kiss-up to Russian Chabadniks.
You want to know why Amar is rejecting diaspora bet dinim? Don’t look to the US. That is a red herring planted by the idea that, at first, it was an RCA conversion that was turned down. Now that we know Amar’s decision is implicating the entire diaspora, it is time to look beyond the US.
Try Taking a look at Amar’s feud with Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks of England. Sacks turned down an Israeli Sephardic Bet Din’s conversion in a very public case last year. Amar was in charge of that Bet Din, and Sacks was basically spitting in Amar’s face. Then, to add to that, Sacks wrote a book criticizing Israeli’s Rabbinic system.
Now, almost one year to the day, Amar won’t accept diaspora bet dinim?
I am not saying they are directly related; I’ll let you piece it together yourself.